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This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
just some leftover thoughts
about me
- j.p.
- seattle, wa, United States
- just wandering through life, seeking what truth and grace i can find while on this journey, and becoming grateful for each day that i stumble along the way
things people said
fun ways to waste time
sites i visit
blog roll
- and (dwight friesen)
- beauty and depravity (eugene cho)
- boars head tavern
- crescendo (becky tucker)
- danteknave
- dr. blaze
- emerging women
- internet monk (michael spencer)
- jak
- jesus creed (scot mcknight)
- lifehacker
- marko (mark oestreicher)
- out of ur (leadership journal)
- rilina
- submergence (karen ward)
- the old white guy (steve brown)
- theoblogy (tony jones)
- vintage faith (dan kimball)
- yellow winter
on my bookshelf (what i'm currently reading)
- Narcissism: A New Theory by Neville Symington
- Psychoanalytic Diagnosis by Nancy McWilliams
- Will I Ever be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers by Karyl McBride
- Drinking: A love story by Caroline Knapp (reread)
- Essential Psychopathology and Its Treatment by Jerrold Maxmen and Nicholas Ward
- Psychoanalytic Object Relations by Althea Horner
- The Mindful Way through Depression: Freeing Yourself from Chronic Unhappiness The Mindful Way through Depression: Freeing Yourself from Chronic Unhappiness by J. Mark G. Williams
last few books i read
- The Gift of Therapy by Irvin Yalom (reread)
- How People Change by Allen Wheelis
- A Shining Affliction by Annie G. Rogers (reread )
- The Heart of Pyschotherapy by George Weinberg
- I and Thou by Martin Buber
- Martin Buber's I and Thou by Kenneth Kramer
- Attachment in Psychotherapy by David Wallin
- A Guide to Treatments that Work by Peter Nathan
- Organizing Solutions for People with Attention Deficit Disorder by Susan Pinsky
- Why Gender Matters by Leonard Sax
- Feed by M.T. Anderson
- On the Edge of the Dark Sea of Darkness: Adventure. Peril. Lost Jewels. And the Fearsome Toothy Cows of Skree. (The Wingfeather Saga) by Andrew Peterson
stuff i"ve written about
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
4 comments:
Julie,
Thank you. I wept. I am weeping. It is so hard to embrace the truth that I am a persecuted people in my own faith.
A story:
When I was 15 I told everyone that I was going to go to seminary. I wanted to be a theologian. I wanted to learn greek and hebrew more than anything in the world. For once, I wanted to read the bible for myself.
I also wanted to get my masters in Counseling. I wanted to go to a seminary because there I could do both.
In excitement I told my grandparents. They both looked concerned and said, "Now, Lizzie, you aren't going to get ordained are you? And be like those other women? What we really need is more men to step up to the plate, we women just emmasculate them with our curse of control".
How righteous it sounds. How devistating it is.
I still haven't taken greek and hebrew.
Wow - pretty heavy stuff. Thanks for posting it.
I was wondering about the context of some of these quotes, especially Luther's, since he was very affectionate towards Katharine and most of the stuff I've read on him seemed to portray her as his equal intellectually and in force of will.
Then I read the poster's comments on YouTube and she (I guess I'm simply assuming it's a woman - my chauvinism is showing) had this to say:
"In one sense, *all* of the quotes are without context. I wasnt trying to give a complete context of each persons full theology about women. I was showing my version of what its like to be affected by those comments."
And that definitely strikes home: whether or not misogyny is ingrained in Christianity, the greater part of the Church's speech about women is framed to rebuke or revile them.
Erin and I are both dealing with what a woman's place is in the church, and why. Are those NT restrictions cultural and not applicable now? Is it because of Eve tempting Adam? Is it a byproduct of the ancient Near Eastern struggles between patriarchal and matriarchal societies and their religious functions? Is it a portrait of the kingdom of heaven, with men playing God and women playing humanity? Or do we just do it because "God said so," according to my conservative pastor?
In a lot of ways I'm trying to counteract my upbringing of simply accepting that there are things women are allowed to do in the church and there are things they aren't. Why is this even a huge deal? Isn't there now no difference between male and female, slave and free, Jew and Gentile? You don't have many people asking, "What is a Gentile's place in the church?" these days.
I guess this is less a comment on your blog than a free-form ramble composed nearly entirely of questions. I'm interested in your thoughts - I'm sure you have about three dozen or so. . .
dante -
as far as context, i believe context matters. but as you pointed out, there's not only the context of who said what and when, but the overall context of how women are viewed by the church and treated within the church (and of course, culture as a whole).
i have many, many thoughts on this whole issue, most of which i'm still in the process of forming, as this is something that has taken up more space in my heart and mind over the past few years. so i'll probably take some time to start posting on it soon.
but i did want to comment that the verse you referred to, Gal 3:28 (how men & women, slave & free, Jew & gentile are all the same in Christ), is a verse referring to our place as children (though the verse says "sons") of God, heirs of Abraham, through baptism. it's a verse talking about a salvific perspective, not one that refers to roles per se.
but, in reading the general whole of scripture, i will say that i have a hard time agreeing with the complementarian or patriarchal perspectives versus the egalitarian one.
but, i'll leave all that for a post later, instead of ranting now. ;)
people who "knew me back when" ask me why i no longer identify myself as a christian. do i need any more reason than what this video shows?
for all my attempts to find words for what's happening to women in the name of christianity, i cannot put it better than this clip did. except, perhaps, for adding my own tears....
thanks for sharing this one. it's profoundly important.
-k
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